More on Motion to Recommit

Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 12:00:46 PM PDT

Just to follow up on Kagro's fine post on rules changes, in analyzing the distinctions between motions to recommit "forthwith" and "promptly" you must first look at what purpose each motion serves against the background of "special rules" themselves. Special rules are the rules for debate produced by the Rules Committee that govern the conduct of the floor debate. I.E. How many amendments, offered by whom, what version, for how many minutes and in what order (more important than it seems.) While there is always the option of an "open rule" that allows the offering of any germane amendment, this is not the predominant form that rules have taken in recent years. It simply takes too long and is too unpredictable to have a lot of open rules, although I believe that there should be more. The alternatives (to oversimplify) are closed rules (just what's on the list) and modified open and closed rules (a bit of freedom but still knowable in advance.)

The Rules Committee is known as the Speaker's Committee and generally does what the leadership wants. Occasionally what the leadership wants produces a fair amount of dissent even among members of the majority caucus. Neither caucus is monolithic on every issue. Rules would generally favor the amendments that the majority wants offered but the minority can get some amendments on the list as well especially if they have a significant base of support or bi-partisan co-sponsorship.  However, when the Republicans dominated the House they had a very restricted view of amendments that favored closed rules in many circumstances. This meant that Democrats and those Republicans who agreed with them on specific bills had no way other than motions to recommit to get their views across. While recommitting "promptly" is the same as killing the bill, "forthwith" gives the power to change the bill as a whole package.  However, it is important to note that sometimes a member(s) of the majority party really wants a different version of a bill than what comes through Rules. For example, some environmental bills during the Republican era got challenged by a "forthwith" motion and some Republicans voted for the motion either to make the bill better or create some mischief. I am sure that this will also be the case with use of the motion by Democrats who don't get what they want out of Rules.  While the motion strategy seldom works there can be perfectly good reasons for using it.

Note:
I hope to answer the questions posted for me by readers over the next few days.

Tags: motion to recommit, House Rules Committee (all tags) :: Previous Tag Versions

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  •  Question (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    SciVo

    I'm watching C-SPAN right now and they are giving some debate to this.  I've also read some of Kagro's comments on the 'MTR'.  Further, I watched republicans kill a number of good bills in the last couple of years.  So I'm all for destroying any such feature of the rules.

    My question then, is:  Is this a step toward eliminating motions to recommit, or is there a real value to them?

    Corollary:  Do MTRs make good bargaining chips the way that threats of filibuster in the Senate do?

    Thanks in advance.

    We're all just monkeys burning in hell. SmokeyMonkey.org

    by smokeymonkey on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 12:26:37 PM PDT

  •  1st of the season (2+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    geez53, SciVo

    Well, before being able to change the rules even, republicans go immediately to obstructionism and offer ... a motion to recommit.

    Amusingly, the clerk was reading for about 2 minutes before someone asked for unanimous consent to dispense with the reading.  I would have objected.  What else is in the 'amendment' that goes with the motion?  Aren't these things supposed to be about technical problems that need to be corrected before it is voted on?  Not for offering entire amendments, which seem to negate the entire rules package anyway.

    Basically, what I heard of it, they were looking to strip entire sections of the legislation.  Learn it now, and learn it well:  republicans are uninterested in governing well.  If we wish to do so as the majority, we should slay them early and never compromise with them again.

    We're all just monkeys burning in hell. SmokeyMonkey.org

    by smokeymonkey on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 12:43:17 PM PDT

  •  ok, i'm an engineer, can someone post flowcharts? (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    SciVo

    of this mess!

    "The sword of truth or the AK-47 of Bull$&!^ -- thank you S. Colbert.

    by fuzed on Wed Jan 07, 2009 at 02:00:37 PM PDT

    •  Have you got a good online flowchart generator? (1+ / 0-)

      Recommended by:
      SciVo

      That would be a good idea for this, and not a small number of other procedures.

      If there was a nice, easy to use generator of some sort, I'd love to use one to map stuff out.

      Alternatively, I'm thinking of using The Google to find one. But I thought it would be more productive to type this out and then wait several days for an answer.

  •  Motions to Recommit..... (1+ / 0-)

    Recommended by:
    SciVo

    Deschler's really lays out the power of the Recommittal.  Remember that this cam from the Norris/Cannon reforms in 1910.

    In any case, I am of two minds in eliminating "promptly".  This is due to the fact that Promptly has been used historically to kill some really bad legislation when a caucus was divided and the Leadership was trying to shove something down the throats of their own members when they knew it was not supported.

    By sending it back to Committee, it reopens it for the Committee to work its own will.  If Leadership refused to move it, it could be done through the Calander Wednesday procedure, which has not been really used in the past 15 years.

    The package eliminated both Calender Wednesday and "promptly".  Meanwhile, we have to admit.  We also used promptly, though not nearly so much as the Republicans.  They were very smart procedurally here.  

    We also have to admit that we had more closed rules in the last two years than they ever did, and what we called open rules, did not fit what were historically called open rules because almost all of them had preprinting requirements.

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